Called out for ableism

[shatterboxx]

This topic was split from the 'Help us create a master post on ableism' topic

So um, today I've basically been called out for using the phrase "it drives me crazy"and I feel really weird about it. I am someone with mental health problems, I also work and volunteer for mental health charities, moderate a mental health support forum and ran an anti-stigma workshop this week so in all honesty I laughed when I saw this! I don't personally have a problem with this phrase being used BUT I'm willing to accept that others do, so I don't mind giving it a miss, it's not really important to me whether I say it or not and I don't want to be a jerk about it.

However I would like to know a few things before I continue using the forums:
1) How others feel about the use of the phrase and why they might feel it's not appropriate
2) Why it was necessary to call me out publicly rather than simply edit the post and PM me? The thing is, the post was edited so it's no longer obvious what I said and I'm feeling really anxious about being called out for being ableist when other people have no idea what I actually did. It's seriously made me feel horrible, like I don't want to be here anymore - I don't want to be dramatic or make this all about me, I just don't get why that had to happen. I like these forums and I want to keep seeing them as a positive thing but today it felt like that got taken away which was pretty miserable.

So would be grateful for all help and advice on this before I start the wonderful descent into Berating Myself Until I Feel Utterly Horrible.

[CodaSammy]

Hi shatterboxx. I don't want to derail the thread here too much, so if you have any follow up questions, please PM me!

1) We don't allow ableist terms here, and if they're necessary then they should be covered by a trigger warning. That phrase in particular is one that's often used flippantly - in the same way that people say things like [tw: casual ableism] "Haha, I'm so OCD, I like things in pairs!" or "It's like the blind leading the blind.". If you want to use a slur in a reclamatory way, you need to make it really clear in your post that that's what you're doing.

2. We do all our modding publicly so that our boundaries are visible not just in our rules but all over our forum in everyday usage. We like users to be able to learn from each other's mistakes and like that it shows that everybody makes mistakes sometimes. If you look around, you'll see plenty of examples of mod action just like that taken for you, and it's not a big deal. Of course, if that's not something that works with your particular anxieties, then you should practice self care.

[Jane_the_chicken]

shatterboxx, I have also questioned that particular phrase previously (though not here) -- I am a person who has on-and-off struggles with mental health, and have, to all effects and purposes (tw: the phrase you would expect! slur) "gone crazy"more than once in the past.

#2 first: I think the public notification is more about making sure that the forum is peppered with reminders to other new users that there is a list of words that are not used on this site -- it's not really a strong specific reprimand. This happens all the time, even to people who are well-loved and established commenters.

I am still thinking about #1. I am not bothered by many uses of the word; but I am bothered by many a person -- for example, when my coworkers, who actually do hold a lot of contempt and hatred for people disabled by mental illness, use that word, I bristle, because they're so obviously conflating "mental illness" with "worthless ball of shit." I am made very angry when people casually use it to refer to mass shooters, because they are so obviously switching it out with "evil."

For smaller things? ("That traffic was. . ." "Those are some . . . patterns on that duvet" etc.) I'm kind of unbothered, to be honest. I guess I've just gotten used to people asking me to change my language as sort of a value-neutral thing that I consider it a courtesy rather than an indictment of me if I don't agree with how they understand that word (even if it's meant as an indictment of me. :P ) Language is more charged than this, but I always think of changing my language more like sitting in a table away from the window if it would make my dining companion more comfortable -- it's not really a judgment on me for liking more sunlight, but if the other person's not going to be able to enjoy their meal with sun in their eyes, and it takes very little effort on my part, there's no reason not to take the other table.

I'm not saying this is the right way to look at things, but it keeps it low-key enough in my head to not be super upset when I find out that I've been saying something that is hurtful to other people.

edited for word choice.

also ETA: I don't know if that's a weird way to look at things, but what I'm trying to say here is that if someone asks me to stop using a word for reasons of an -ism, I promptly stop using it as a courtesy to them, but keep the option open in my head of further examining that word and developing my own opinion about it. This makes me feel a bit more in control and less emotionally battered.

[drakelyn]

also ETA: I don't know if that's a weird way to look at things, but what I'm trying to say here is that if someone asks me to stop using a word for reasons of an -ism, I promptly stop using it as a courtesy to them, but keep the option open in my head of further examining that word and developing my own opinion about it. This makes me feel a bit more in control and less emotionally battered.

YES THIS. I've also gotten the "don't use that word/phrase here" mod note in the past, and had to do the internal balancing act of "well I don't think it's a problem" vs. "I can see how somebody could be hurt by this" vs. "somebody has actually been hurt by this, maybe I should rethink it." I'm medicating to control a mental illness that I'd previously lost the equivalent of years of my life to, so I understand about being deeply ambivalent about casual use of (tw: ableist slur) "crazy." but I've also struggled to come up with a phrase that gets the idea across without being offensive, and it does sometimes slip into my offline usage. another one I struggle with is (tw: ableist slur) "lame," which is obviously worse, and I've done a pretty good job of purging it from my out-loud usage, especially having friends who for example need to use a cane on a daily basis, but I have to admit that it does crop up in my internal monologue far more often than I like.

retraining language use is a long, ongoing process, and can be hard for several reasons. you have much empathy, shatterboxx.

[shatterboxx]

Jane and drakelyn - Thanks so much for your thoughts, guys, really useful and I'll certainly think on it more in the future.

CodaSammy - Telling someone who says their anxieties have been triggered by something that "it's no big deal" and "you should practice self-care" is gaslighting. I could have made my peace with pretty much everything else you said in one way or another but I'm not comfortable staying in a community where moderators think it's OK to talk to members like that.

All the best, guys, thanks so much for all your help and advice :) The members here do a great job in supporting people and long may it continue.